Tag Archives: Michelle Jackson

Career, Podcast

Building Connections: Networking Tips for Busy Parents

Learn how you can get back into the swing of things and effectively network!

Why You Need to Rethink How You Network

For better and worse the pandemic has shifted how we work. For some families, working from home has now become an option. That’s blessing for sure.

Some companies have shifted how they communicate, with in-person meeting being replaced with chats, emails, and video conferencing.

However, there’s benefits for in-person events like conferences and team strategy sessions for a big project or to connect with coworkers.

With in-person events opening back up, you may feel a bit rusty with essential skills like networking.

Whether you’re an entrepreneur, remote worker, or back full time in the office, it’s vital to your career, and believe it or not, your joy to brush up on those skills.

That’s why I’m thrilled to have Michelle Jackson on the show today. She’s an author and content creator and the founder of The Brand Building Lab where she helps entrepreneurs dial in and design a profitable and authentic business that positively impacts their community.

I’ve known her for probably 10 years now and I can tell you she has a gift for connecting with people and networking.

In this episode, we’ll get into:

  • why the old model of networking doesn’t work
  • where and how you can organically connect with people
  • how to develop a strategy that’s a effective and fun

Hope you enjoy!

Resources

If you’re ready to jump into building your career and finances, here are a few of my favorite resources that we covered in the episode plus more.

If you want to chat more about creating better money habits, questions, or share your own tips, please join us at Thriving Families on Facebook. We’d love to see you there!

Thank You to Our Sponsor Coastal!

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Effective Networking is Building Connections

Elle Martinez: One of the things I love and respect about you is you have a great reputation in our original space, the FinCon space, the personal finance space for being someone who's just genuine fun to be around with, but also an effective networker.

I wanted to first jump into that because I feel like this is a skill that maybe post-Covid, were a little rusty on.

We're going back to in-person, events and working with people again. For you, have you always been like a natural networker or was that a skill that you've built upon?

Michelle Jackson: I wanna actually change how we're referencing this, which is relationship building.

I feel like when we say networking, it feels very like mechanical and stilted and like I get images of going to a cocktail bar and wearing, you know, a really cute cocktail dress, which I don't own because I've gained weight over Covid and I have to use Rent the Runway now as I try to lose weight.

Like just, I don't network. I build connections authentically, in organically with people. I think that would be a better way to kind of frame what I do.

The Effects of The Pandemic with Networking

Michelle Jackson: I've always been pretty good at connecting with people, but I do wanna say even though I am a natural extrovert, during Covid, I have definitely become very solidly an ambivert.

In the sense that I notice that there are times when I just get tired of people faster than before.

Now I will say, I'm an extrovert, a lifelong extrovert, but I'm an only child and so I would be social and then I would be fading away prior to Covid. Covid just made that tendency a lot more pronounced.

But because of how I approach connecting with people and just connecting with people.

I think that there's room to organically meet people where they're at, including yourself when we are in these professional spaces.

What I would say to anyone listening to our conversation as we get further into it is ask the question, how would you meet people if you could never go to a conference?

I think it's just a completely different approach, like how would you meet people in the content creation space that you're currently in and never attend conferences.

How to Approach Conferences

For context, I now alternate the years that I attend conferences so, Any conferences that I attend in 2023, I will not attend in 2024.

This has not harmed my visibility in the space. I see people all the time. In fact, today as we record this episode, prior to getting on the show, I was sharing how some mutual friends of the FinCon space will be in town. I'm gonna have, you know, cocktails and happy hour with them.

So I think my first question would be how are you meeting people if there's no conferences?

For a lot of people you've been doing that because of Covid, especially if you are observing, protocols. For me, I have only so much capacity and I do not want to go everywhere.

For conferences, like I'm very like, particular about the conferences that I attend. I want to enjoy the location. I wanna be excited about it.

I wanna feel like the content makes sense for me to even be there cuz I've been in the content creations space for a long time. Like it has to make sense to get me on a plane from basically the middle of the country to fly around.

The last conference that I attended, it took five hours to fly back because I live in Colorado, so it was almost five hours. That's not including once I arrived at home, like at our airport and getting home.

So for me, it has to really make sense to do these things, which is part of the reason why I emphasize connecting with people in other ways.

It's so much better, it's so much less pressure and I'll just get off my soapbox.

Finding the Right Spaces to Network

Elle Martinez: No, I think you bring up a lot of good points and one, we do have parents who are starting to build something on the side, either for a career pivot or for their specific financial goal, getting outta debt, saving up for a house, or, doing something else.

Then your advice about connecting with people, not just networking, I completely understand. A lot of people have like a bad taste in their mouth when they hear networking, but it is a necessary skill too if you have a nine to five, because I don't think people realize how important it is when it comes to promotion.

Even if you go job searching for another position, having your network there for you, letting you know about openings that might not be advertised. are great opportunities to build up your career.

I know, we're gonna be focusing a little more on entrepreneurs and freelancers but a lot of this advice is really helpful for families that are looking to get ahead with their nine to five career.

So, wanna take another step back. What you were saying about if you couldn't go to conferences, how would you network.

Let's say someone, it's been three years, what are some ideas or starting points for someone who is trying to, maybe a resource to find, like I need to develop my relationships and networks within the community that I'm around.

Michelle Jackson: Again, I kind of think of it this differently.

Right now there is a epidemic of loneliness in the United States and across the world and partly because of the impact of Covid, if we've been shut off and cut off for one another for a long time.

The reason why I keep kind of pushing back on this idea of networking is it takes a community to do a thing, right?

You would be surprised at the most unexpected people who may be a resource for you or related to someone that they connect you, that they could connect you with, because it's just they like you and they're like, oh, well my cousin so-and-so does this thing.

I'm gonna give a couple examples of how in regular, everyday life this can happen. If you're a nine to five, if you're an entrepreneur, it doesn't matter.

This is just making connections with people in an authentic and organic way where they're sustained over time and they would actually want to share things with you.

So simple things like what do you like to do for fun? What do you enjoy? There are different, and this is a very Colorado example, but there are so many different outdoor experience clubs, if you will. So if you like to ski, if you like to hike, if you like to work out, there's all these different communities that you can join for free here in my state and beyond.

Using Meetup.com to Find Your Community

Michelle Jackson: A good example of that is meetup.com actually. I absolutely love meetup.com. It is a community of communities.

Basically that came out of 9/11. They created meetup.com because people were like, we don't have a sense of community and we're feeling really apart from one another.

Meetup.com was a great way for people to create all these different interest focused meetups and and then it grew from there.

I've attended meetups in the US in Australia. They've just been amazing. What I like about them is they can be very, very, very niche.

So you could have multiple interests, you could be interested in. I actually, am in an online marketing community for women here in Denver. But there are FinTech meetups, so I go to the FinTech one.

There's podcasting meetups. I go to those. It's great because when they schedule an event, I see if it works with my schedule, and then I go, I don't have to pay.

It's just like a, a great thing. Maybe I buy a drink when I'm there. I don't have to dress up because here we don't really have to do that. It's just super low key. If we're going hiking, Same thing. I just go and sign up and I go hiking.

Consider Professional Development Opportunities

Michelle Jackson: The other thing I would say is, you know, again, talking about interests especially from like a professional standpoint where you're really trying to grow and expand in your area of expertise or your field that you're working in?

Anytime you can do a professional development program, say yes. There was a program on my campus that was professional development program and we were in a cohort for a year.

We got to go to conferences as a part of that cohort and mine was in Bozeman, Montana. It was phenomenal.

It was just a really amazing way to meet people who were aligned with what I was doing. They were my colleagues across campus and it was just cool.

What I would say is you could also look into that at your organization. There are fellowships you could apply for. You don't, just because you work for people doesn't mean that you have to put all your cards into them, like you don't need to put all your eggs in one basket.

You could apply these kind of communities where they could support what you're trying to do and expand your learning and then they become a community that you're a part of throughout the year.

I apply for fellowships and a lot of times with fellowships, you're part of a cohort.

I just feel like there's more than one way to meet people, and I feel like that's the part that people are missing.

Think Outside the Box with Networking

Michelle Jackson: It's just like there's this whole thing now where people are trying to date, right? They're always trying to date, but this is like a new thing that came up and they're like, wait, I don't have to use an app.

I can just go to Home Depot. And I'm like, Yeah, you can or you could be a part of a pickleball, pickleball league or corn hole if you're in the Midwest or here, like corn hole. Or maybe you like snowboarding. I feel like, yeah. Meeting people doesn't have to be work.

And a lot of times in these conversations, that's how people approach it and so it's painful. I would say the other thing is this- if you're a part of a community, as a creative, like we are there are a lot of different online meetups that they're hosting in state meetups. If people are coming to your state, Connect with them, but there's big caveat with that these are people that you've been in touch with for a while.

You know people are crazy, so you have to have discernment. If a person seems like a weirdo, they probably are, but if you've been in touch with someone for a while, and you're like, this is a person that I can transition from online to offline. You do have to do that thoughtfully.

You're meeting in a place with lots of other people. Maybe there's other people with you. I've made some really amazing friendships transitioning from online to offline but I do have some very strict ways to do that because I don't have time for crazy people.

I just would say there's 1,000,000,001 ways to meet people and expand your network, and most of them do not involve wearing a cocktail dress. I love to dress up and whatever, but it is cold today, right?

At the time we're recording this, it's freezing cold. I'm not gonna dress, wear a dress to meet people cuz I'll freeze. I totally get that.

Elle Martinez: Yeah. You're negative seven. So don't do that. Choose life. Yes.

But I I do appreciate you saying that cause I think we have kind of gotten out of, we have to get out of that mindset where here are my professional interests.

Therefore, when I meet people it's gonna be in this very strict setting that you can expand it, that it can be more organic. What are your interests? Because there's a benefit just in so many ways you learn and grow from each other on that.

We can meet people outside of conferences, but let's talk about conferences because that's still a big part.

I know like in our space to meet potential partners. Again, learning about what's going on in the community, great way to learn new things, trends that are going. How do you do it without one being exhausted, and two, how do you choose the conferences?

You said, you're not gonna be going every year to the same conferences. You're being very thoughtful and discerning.

How to Choose Which Conferences and Events to Attend

Elle Martinez: A lot of in my community are parents with kids and quite frankly, it's like if I travel, I want to make the most out of it. I do wanna enjoy it. How do you do it? I'm just curious about your thought process.

Michelle Jackson: So I am at the point in my online content creation career, if you will where there are certain things I'm really looking at. Does this event make sense for me at the point that I'm in with what I'm doing?

Like, have I heard that the content will be at a level that, that I will learn something. If I go there, will the attendees be great to to meet?

They're all the attendees of every conference are almost always like amazing. But for me to get on a plane and to fly across the country or whatever, It takes a lot of energy and so it just, there's just certain things I have to make sure I check before I say Yes.

Is it affordable? I am not trying to pay thousands of dollars to go to conferences. My goal is to make money when I attend a conference and to always be in the black. So any financial investment that I make when I attend. I have to recoup that money within that week or within a month of attending. Whether that is like a business partnership or something has to happen.

I just don't go to go. I go and it has to make sense. Is the audience aligned with the audience that I wanna be front of? Is there someone speaking that I'm like, wow, this is a really good opportunity to get in front of this? Like to see this person and hear what they have to share.

Do I like the community? Do I like and resonate with the community? I typically like most of the communities, but sometimes it's just like it's not quite the right fit.

Yeah . And so that's something to kind of be aware of as well.

Are there opportunities to highlight and share your expertise and that could be as a speaker, that could be if you decide to host something unofficially outside of the window of the event. So there's a lot of different things that I kind of look at.

One event that I'm attending this year, it will be the last time I go because I've been attending this event for a really long time. I see the people all the time. It's like family.

And so I think there's another thing to consider, which is like the life cycle of the event. I have done side hustles at conferences and it's interesting because they're some of the best side hustles, by the way. But it's interesting because you'll meet people who are like, yeah, I've been going for 15 years and I'm just like, you know what? Like you don't need to go for 15 years. Like this could be, maybe

Elle Martinez: at that point they should give you a free ticket. , you're like the

Michelle Jackson: mascot.

Oh my God. So for me, I don't wanna be doing anything for 15 years in a row. We're good.

I wanna also say that in 2024, I've decided not to attend any conferences partly because when I experimented with alternating years, it was just like phenomenal. And also it didn't really impact my business at all.

Like I had the capacity to implement what I was learning at these events, and then also to deepen the relationships that I was making with the people that I met.

I think that that's something that we don't talk enough about, which is going to conferences is , but there's a lot of information that we're taking in and I feel like most people don't give themselves enough time to actually implement what they're learning.

I think some people are kind of addicted to going, and so to me, it's like, again, I have other places I can go without like, all this, the obligations that come up with attending a conference.

I think the other thing too, to the second part of what you asked, which is how are you meeting people and connecting, you have to make these events small and quite frankly, if you're doing it right, you're still gonna be because meeting people is tiring.

Like this idea that you're not gonna be tired, I think , is not realistic. You're traveling to a new state or place, that the travel alone is tiring. You're talking with people you know throughout the day. Even introverts who talk to just a few people, they're gonna be tired.

Even extroverts, like everyone thinks that extroverts don't get tired. They get tired. And there's a point where you're like, where'd the extrovert friend go? They're taking a nap. You know, or, or

Elle Martinez: they lost their voice. .

Michelle Jackson: Yeah. Or they lost their voice. Which I have done. And so for me, what I tend to do at, at large conferences in part, especially I make it small.

I go to coffee meetups, like they always have these fun little things you can do if they're, if they're designed well conferences typically will have all these, smaller things that you can do, like a coffee meetup or a run or go to happy hour with a really niche group within the group.

I really focus on those things. This is the other reason why I'm so picky because a lot of people will arrive early to a conference and by early, I don't mean the day that it starts.

I mean, a day or two before it starts. So a lot of the events that I attend, I'm going one because I like the location. That's huge and so I'm gonna attend for a week because I wanna experience the location I wanna build in time so that I can meet with people in a really like, relaxed way without being rushed because maybe they're gonna be speaking and they're really well known.

We have friends that people follow them because they have fans like that. And so if I know that about them, I'm building in the time to really network in a way that's really like relaxing.

A good example of this is last year, I feel like it was last. Was it 2021? I think it was 2021. I was at an event in Austin and Austin's amazing right? Eating tacos, hanging out. And we went to I wanna call it Barton Springs. I feel like that's, is that Barton Springs? Yes. No. Yes. It's this cool massive pool.

It's a massive natural pool in the middle of Austin and we just hung out and swam and, you know, slid along the, the like slimy bottom . Cause the bottom is kinda slimy, but it was just so, such a great day.

That's how you meet people. You go swimming, you relax, you explore. That's what you do. That's how you network and make really authentic connections that are, yeah, pretty stress free because how relaxing is it to go swimming and floating around and just like relaxing and then go for tacos and drinks, like that's what we did that day.

That was one of the highlights of the conference and those people are a big reason why my revenue grew actually over time because they shared some insights into their business.

Again, the moral of the story, the lesson is have fun with people and keep showing up.

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Financial Independence, Podcast

How to Savor and Enjoy This Summer without Breaking Your Budget

Today we’re digging into how to live well and enjoy this summer without breaking your budget!

Enjoying Summer as a Family, Staying on Budget

Saving money can be a smart and practical move when it comes to your finances. Sometimes though, you can get caught up with savings that it becomes your goal.

In the personal finance space and in particular with the financial independence community, there’s a segment that is intensely focused on how cheap they’re living. 

They spend only $25,000 year or save half or more of their income. 

First off, I think it’s commendable to look at ways to save. You want your hard-earned money o go further. But I think it misses the point of it all. 

Instead of focusing on living cheaply, I think it’s more enjoyable and sustainable to focus on living well. 

As parents, we want to enjoy the time we have now with our kids. We can’t get that time back with them.

While working towards financial freedom does take getting our numbers into a good spot, it’s really to serve the bigger goals, savor the more precious resource time. 

So today we’re digging into ways we can find that balance that is right for us and whatever season of life we’re in. 

This is why I’m happy to have author, speaker, and podcaster Michelle Jackson on the podcast today.  

In this episode we’ll get into:

  • Defining your priorities and creating a budget that includes those while tackling paying off debt
  • Finding ways to live well (foodie, health, and more) while keeping it affordable
  • How to remove stress and automate your money

Let’s get started!

Resources to Help You To Reset Your Finances and More

If you’re ready to get your budget up and running this summer, here are some handy tools and resources you should check out! 

Thank You to Our Sponsor Coastal!

Support for this podcast comes from Coastal Credit Union. If you’re living in the Raleigh Durham area and looking to bank better, come check out Coastal today!

They not only have fantastic customer service but they also have competitive rates on their checking and savings accounts!

Michelle is one of those people you meet you instantly like; she's just so sweet.

I first met her about eight years ago in Denver at a conference. One thing that I respect and appreciate about her is how she's carved out this path where she is doing work that she loves, she's paying down her debt, and she still makes time for health care. 

With everything going on now, it can be difficult for you to find your footing when there are so many things that are changing. 

So I was thrilled we got together to chat about the art of living well and how to start making that journey and making those adjustments. 

And a heads up – Michelle was at a coffee shop while we were doing our chat. But I like to think of it as extra ambiance.

Shifting Finances to Free Up Options and Dump Debt

Michelle Jackson: One of the things that I would say is in 2020; we're all familiar with all of these ways to save money. 

I think that is the marriage of technology and financial goals. It's so interesting to experience and observe during this time, like really evidence. And it's because there are so many things out there that are created to help us win money, especially in those areas that we struggle with. 

As far as living our best lives and doing it for less… One of the things I spent a lot of time thinking about several years ago was how do I want to live my life?

I was commuting 30 plus miles a day. They were actually working on the highway at a time. So a 30-mile commute. It should be like 45 minutes or whatever was typically two hours each way.

Elle Martinez: Wow.

Michelle Jackson: I did. Yeah. And so I was commuting with the same people for years. And you would just sleep on the bus. This was really nice. Spread over and we'd both sleep and then wake up and be. And the town that I worked at, I was just like, what do I look like with this or want my life to be? But the problem was that I had a lot of debt. I had a lot of things going on.

And then finally, one day, I was just like, I need to start trying to figure this out because I don't want to live like this. And so I started and I should say I had a huge financial mess. I had thousands of dollars of debt. I just had a lot going on.

So what was the mix of it, if you don't mind me asking? Like, what kind of guy?

I had a zillion credit cards, like lots of little credit cards like that, and I had lots of large credit limits. So it's just a lot of them.

I had random little, you know, amounts of personal loans like my lunch money, just lots and lots of little things, things built up over time and became a huge financial mess. And for people who have never experience like having creditors call you or having more than one day. Horrible. 

I was getting at the height of it all; I was getting calls, text messages, letters, and emails, typically from the same creditor. Multiply it by like 30.

So it was a lot of stress that I was dealing with and work for things that I couldn't even remember.

Reworking Your Budget to Align with Your Values

So one of the things I thought about was like, how can I just lower my over overall overhead in general, like I'm paying all this money after like buying somebody to pay off the debt.

So I started methodically going through my budget. So I started going. I had to do a couple of things. One is I had it knowledge of who I was as a person. Like, I'm not a fancy person. I'm not going to do it to save money. I'm not playing to not live my life. Like there were certain things that I was unwilling to stop doing.

I believe with food and particularly that food is medicine and that it would make no sense for me to eat poorly and then get sick. And I was already stressed out like I was already genetically unwell. So to exacerbate that make sense.

I knew that I wanted to do this. I knew that I wanted to take trips within reason. So the richest certain things, I was like, OK, this is what I value.

This whole conversation, I look at your budget, how you value it. And then I was like, how can I do this for less? So, for example, with groceries, I started shopping multiple times during the week, which I just had a habit of shopping multiple times.

I just went shopping once. It was a small thing, it saved me a lot of time because clearly I didn't have a lot of time with. Four hours a day, you know.

So I just literally was like, this is what I need to pick up once a week. And that was it. And maybe I would go also to the farmer's market if it was during the summer season. So maybe it would be too tight.

But like, very quick, easy. And my grocery bill dropped significantly, actually, just by doing that one thing.

Focus on Living Well, Not Living Cheaply

Elle Martinez: I think that's fascinating. It was great. You pointed that out because a lot of times in personal finance, there's a lot of advice turn out and one that was almost a badge of honor.

We spend so cheaply, you know, whether it's food or whatever, and that's how we save and pay down the debt. But what you're saying is you pause to define your priorities.

Michelle Jackson: Yes.

Elle Martinez: And then honed in on that and then try to, you know, still what you valued with your health, with finding cheaper ways.

That's fascinating because I think we have a desire, you know, not to just spend money to spend money, but we're in such a rush to get that quick fix of dropping the spending that we don't look at -what are you working towards?

It is not just saving money. Align yourself and your spending on what matters to you. So I thought that was fascinating.

Michelle Jackson: I like align yourself. So I was out of alignment with all the debt. So where I analyzed a life with my values.

Staying Fit and Healthy with an Expensive Gym Membership

Michelle Jackson: Another thing I valued was fitness. And so I was like, OK, maybe right now I can't do a lot of classes or maybe I want to take classes are going to do that. So the city has three classes that teach provided by the city of Denver, like hip hop power sources like that.

Elle Martinez: I'm curious, how did you find out about that?

Michelle Jackson: Literally, I found it because I know my town. But a lot of times you'll find it by means of defense. Actually, it's a good place to start. Instagram right now, it's a little tricky because we're still finding our city to be copied.

Even now, recently I found a yoga studio here, Dufort, that this woman on black woman-owned and they have made it a priority. A part of the mission to offer free yoga for people of color. So now I'm going to be adding that to my fitness.

I also trade hours for this. How work even now. So I actually this is weird. Literally, like two weeks before the shutdown orders happened in my state, I had signed on to do like a work exchange. And literally, this looks like almost fescue is like relatively easy. Yes, occasionally. And then, like Slade claimed the studio every once in awhile, like every other super easy, then corona virus happens. And the scope of work change. And so I like crafting these letters. So I didn't have to write them. I just had to like, do the final, which looks like super bracing batch. And then I got our sprayed business since March.

Not no, but that's important because also to fitness can be expense. A lot of, you know, categories that people spend can be pricey, especially fitness. Sometimes we go overboard and get all this equipment, but you families to kind of hack it so that you still are getting the fitness, you know, and health benefits. But you're not spending a ton of money.

And also, I wanted to have the actual experience that I wanted. So I didn't want to. I like my can do YouTube videos, but I don't join them as much like … I value in-person classes. Those are a lot more interesting for me.

So that's the other piece too. It's like, yes, I could have just totally forgone classes altogether and just done YouTube videos. But for me, that was a bit. The other thing that I did was I signed up for speedups and this is very specific touring with. But we have a lot of fitness meetups in Colorado.

So at the time that recording this day as we work this, I'm going out backpacking weekends and I think like thousands of steps that I'm going to get Major. And so I did a lot of that. You instill fear. And those were freaks. And so I wish I would carpool with someone. Thought, you know what I mean? So it was just incredible. So if you're a person of color, I'm nervous about that because there are ships for that. So there are literally meetup groups for people of color. I like to go and be out in nature. I fly into all kinds of groups.

I grew up going outdoors, but I just hope for a lot of reasons to do the same thing for less. And then the other pieces, if you're like, well, what about the equipment? I have friends who left and they gave me their snowboard. And so I got a lot of free equipment.

But you got to buy goodwill and get very inexpensive equipment for companies that all they do is sell outdoors equipment.

The other thing I looked at was transportation because I'm not a car person. I actually offered to drive as the whole time it was. It was. It was, yeah.

Learning to drive. I'm proud of you.

I will. To anger preprint to my Russian brand, Midia and my Colorado friend who got in the car with the. How to drive my car out front, actually. And that saves you a lot of money, because if I paid for lessons, I would've been very, very expensive. But what I did, which was the same as I actually buy a used car catch for like fifteen hundred dollars. Yeah. And I had to learn to drive. I owned a car. And so my friends would get in the car and I would drive. Now I actually don't have that car. I use a car share instead. So I've found that as a single one without ABC, I. I don't need to have a car outside. I also do by light rail. And I bike. So for me, I was like, maybe I don't need to own a car. It's not a car person, clearly. And so I noun's car. Sure, I'm accessible by 2020. So far I think that I was paid for fifty dollars for transportation. Wow. Great. Not even. Not even. And that's including a trip that I'm taking a couple weeks from now for Camp five.

I upgraded my personal membership for the highest level insurance. So I have a million dollar policy that I'm paying into. So if something happens and I'm in the car, I'm coverage quite a significant amount of coverage. And I think that that's great. So this year, January and April, I think I spent 50 bucks on transfers.

And it's so cool because the program that I use is actually a nonprofit here in Colorado. So it's not a for profit. And they have hybrid cars that exist specifically focus on I care about the Earth. So it's really about alignment with how I like to live my life. I really care about my footprint. And so I'm really happy with the program. I'm like obsessed with the rap for that. I drove last week. That's my favorite car in the fleet. But it's not close to my house. So I have to I have to go downtown to get the rap sports. So I went on my road trip. I got the rap for it. And that was a lot of fun. And that's cool because you get to test out these hours before my. So, yeah, this is for the rest of the summer. I mean, I spend about two hour, 45 dollars for the next time they drive a couple of his mouth. And then in August, I'll take another road trip. It'll be another ten point five dollars. And then for the rest of the year, it's going to be like 30 bucks a month.

The average car payment right now for a new car is like five hundred and change. I want to say five thirty and I dunley for a used car. It's like three hundred and eighty five a month.

And that's not counting car insurance on top of that. And, you know, fuel and all that maintenance. So that's a really clever hack. I do want to kind of switch gears, because since I've known you, you have like built different income streams as a as a successful businesswoman. You're an author. You speak. You are running this course to help other people pursue their dream of writing. You have two podcasts, Square State about all about Colorado. And Michelle is money hungry. So you are managing a lot. I want to talk to you one. How do you step back and kind of recharge yourself so you're not burning out? And then like, how do you view self care? Because that's kind of like throwing around and I hate now that I see it more in advertisements than actual conversations.

So for me, I think with entrepreneurship, entrepreneurs will try a lot of things. And it's a really exhausting part of the journey, I find, because you're trying to figure out what's the right fit freedom, especially as a kid, to watch where it's very intangible, like there's a lot of love for you to experience. And it just took me a while to figure out what worked well, technically. And it was really tiring because it was a lot of things because well, to be honest, this year I haven't really any refinement mode. So, you know, when people are like, oh, that person's an overnight success. And they're like, dude, I've been at this for like seven years.

That's kind of the experience where I've been at this for eight years now. And so I'm at that point where I've just had enough lessons and I know what doesn't work. So, for example, what doesn't work is I don't do coffee. I don't do, like, take your breaks. Yeah, I don't do that. But that's time. I could be a money issue. I don't want so. So that's a boundaries that I set because I already create free content and podcasts and websites. You know, I do stuff on Mitsuse, my Instagram and all that. So I don't need to do this one one at once. So I started reading people when it came up to me. If you want to meet with me, you can just pay me like your boss. And then that's actually proven to be. So I got a payment this week. A person that I spoke to in China and stuff. Nothing crazy out of the conversation.

So just be really clear about the boundaries you set as entrepreneur. So, Keith, one of the easiest things, I think that the biggest impact is changing my email responder's. I cannot explain what a big difference I made because what I did was I was like, look, I'm available Monday through Thursday. I'm like 10 to 4:00. And then I'm on Friday. I'm available half the day and then I'm out. And what happened was it was very clear to people what to expect for me.

So it wasn't just that I was like, I'm not available. It was like I'm not available now. This is why during usually the mountains when I get back. This is where the next 24 to 48 hours. That one change has saved me so much hassle. I love that so much. And so that was an unexpected bonus result. Carrie, others thinks we're just saying, no, don't explain your no.

Like a lot of people are like, well, no. And this is why no one cares why. Just say no and move on. The other thing was there is I. Because I work online. I can choose where I work. And so I will make a point going into the mountains and staying for shootings, mountains just decompressing. So I think you need to make sure to get away. And we we charge. Energize yourself. It's so important. I think people just keep going and going and going. It doesn't serve them or their skill to want us.

Yeah, that's that's key.

I know as parents for us, we have to have like our alone time. And my husband, I are complete opposites. So I'm the morning person, you know, like straight up to morning routine that you read about like 5:00 in the morning.

But for me, that is when I can have that quietness that I need to to think whether it's for work, for relaxing, like for me to be my best self. That's my time. And my husband's more than night owl. And that's his time. So, I mean, finding the even if you can't physically get away, you gotta regularly scheduled some kind of time. To recharge, have that solitude, you know, it can also be outdoors, I've been doing a lot more walking in the neighborhood still. Of course, social distancing. But. You know, health care doesn't always have to be like buying this product, you know, taking this expensive, you know, retreat. It's finding pockets of time. You can use however you see fit.

And I should also mention about the retreat's, because this this is actually important.

They said when I go over to the mountains for my retreat. I still the hospital is like my favorite hospital ever. And I suspect that you've seen so many pictures of the. They are, actually. So I'd say that I saw my breakfast. They had a hot tub like it was awesome. They're actually opening another property in Telluride, Colorado. I can't not reach. So I will be reserving my space because of rotavirus. I don't feel comfortable, really. Same thing with people. So before I would be fine. Yes. Now I want to be a little more reserved, my own space just fine. So instead of a thirty five dollars, so it's significantly more. But it's so value to me and my well. So is he okay with it. It's not like I'm always new. It's like not always. But that's a different balance. Switch back to when I saw it. Yeah. Right now I have to spend this.

Yeah. I think that actually kind of circles back and a good place to wrap up because we see money, you know, as we've been writing about personal finance as a tool.

But I think a lot of times when you're starting it, some people see it as the goal. Right. Your you're paying down a certain amount of debt or if you're in the you know, if I space, you know, you're talking about how much you're saving. But at the end of the day, that's not really what you should be using to teach. I think you should look at time, you know how I was able to spend my time and I spend the time with the people in the projects that matter most to me. Even if you're not, you know, at your retirement number 10, you little by little make decisions with your money.

You bring one step closer, either, you know, more flexibility or more options when it comes to things that you need for self care and taking care of others.

Hopefully hearing Michelle's share, some of the ways that she's saving while still enjoying and taking care of herself has given you a few ideas for your own summer schedule and budget. So now how can we use that to craft our own plans for the summer and beyond? I want to share a few things to consider. The first is another popular idea within the personal finance space automation. Most of us have regular bills. We have rent, mortgage, utilities, cable, cell phone, you know, the deal. And they tend to be fairly consistent. Instead of worrying about the bills, his paycheck, you can automate much of it. Take advantage of options like free online banking features that can make your financial life so much easier. This definitely shifted things for us at the beginning when we were paying down debt. We needed a path forward and we needed something that we can maintain. So automating those payments with our bills car in student loan payments were so much easier. Taking advantage of free online banking can definitely make things simpler for yourself. And I do want to explain that there is a difference between automating on your side through your bank or credit union and then having someone a bill draft from yours. And I tend to prefer to do the automation on my side. I have more control. Should something happen. Because there have been times when I've had family members tell me that a bill took too much or they took it earlier than expected.

So I prefer to have that on my end. Now, there have been a few times when I've had it drafted, but in those cases there was some financial benefit to us. For example, with student loans, when you do those autographs. There was a reduction with the interest rate. So that definitely saved us money in the long run. And then with insurance companies, they tend to give you a discount if you do a semi annual or an annual plan. So keep that in mind when you're trying to decide between the two. And when you automate your finances that way, you free up time because your bills are set. Now, that doesn't mean that it's set in. Forget it. That's when that's too much of a good thing. And it can go bad. Just because you're automating your money doesn't mean that you're not still on top of it. Having monthly check ins to review everything that's been transferred and making. Sure, the bills are paid. Is a smart thing to do. It doesn't take much time. And you'll be able to catch any mistakes or if bills have been raised. And that's happened to us a few times over the years, especially with things like cable and insurance. Now, you have some free time because you're automating it and you can use that to maybe negotiate a better deal with your bills.

And if right now you're still overwhelmed, there's so much to do and you really don't have time to take care of the negotiation. There are options like trim where they can do that on your behalf, where they work to get you the best deal on cable, Internet, phone, medical bills and also cancel old subscriptions. Every dollar counts. So if you do it yourself, that can be fantastic. But realistically, some of us may need some help. So it's great that there are options like trim. Another way automating can benefit you is that it gives you more time as a family to focus on the big picture, just like we mentioned last episode. And Michelle brought up today. You need to define your priorities. And I totally get it. If now, with current circumstances, your energy is focused on just getting through 2020, but still try to find ways that you can move your money towards you and what matters most to you. This will pass. So laid the steps. Now you can then ramp it up as appropriate. And if you want to talk about this some more, maybe swap some ideas, stories. Please join our free and private Facebook group. Thriving families were there to support and encourage one another, no matter where we are on our financial journey. 

Just head over to simplifyandenjoy.com/fb. We hope to see you there! 

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Financial Independence, Life

How to Live Well on Less This Summer with Michelle Jackson

For some in the financial independence space, there is almost a badge of honor of living your life as cheaply as possible.

They talk about how they only spend $X a year. While I respect keeping expenses in check, I think it’s not really a healthy way to approach things.

With us still dealing with this pandemic, it's a reminder that money is simply a tool and not the goal.

Instead of trying to live cheaply, let's focus on living well.

Let's try to take a step back and see how we can simplify things including our finances so we can have more time with the people and projects that matter to you.

Michelle Jackson is someone who's already made significant changes to her life and finances and is in a much happier spot.

Michelle is one of my favorite people and I was thrilled we got to sit down and chat about the art of living well.

She's not only an author but runs two podcasts (Square State – which is focused on Colorado and Michelle is Money Hungry – all about lifestyle design for entrepreneurs, specifically women).

She’s here to discuss with me:

  • her journey from being in debt and overwhelmed to finding fulfillment while paying down her debt
  • how being a frugal foodie taught her to live well without breaking a budget
  • why self-care matters and how to do it affordably

You can watch our chat right here or go through an edited transcript below!

Meet Michelle Jackson

Michelle Jackson is mission-driven to help her readers and listeners empower themselves financially. Whether it is by improving their personal finances or learning how to sell what they already know, she loves having those conversations.

Michelle runs the website and podcast Michelle is Money Hungry, and is the founder of the Money on the Mountain retreat focused on financially empowering single women one conversation at a time.

When she's not geeking out about personal finance you can find her hiking in the mountains of Colorado.

The Art of Living Well

Elle Martinez: Thank you for joining me, especially during this little lunch chat. I'm glad we can catch up.

Michelle Jackson: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. And for those of you listening, if you can hear some awesome tunes behind me, that's because I'm a really nice coffee shop and having a golden. Tumeric latte and enjoy my life during the road.

Elle Martinez: Well, I think this is important because that's what we want to talk about is living your best life with the circumstances that we have.

I know right now we're in the middle of the summer in the middle of a pandemic. Coronavirus has not gone away and we are trying to find a way to stay healthy, stay sane during this time.

So I wanted to talk to you because personal finance has some great principles, but I also think there's some misconceptions and certain attitudes that can be harmful to many people, especially as they're trying to tackle their goals. So I kind of want to talk to you about this. How do you live well on that?

Michelle Jackson: So one of the things that I would say. In 2020, we're all familiar with all of these ways to save money.

I think that the marriage of technology and financial goals is so interesting to experience and observe during this time, like, we're really at an advantage because there are so many things out there that are created to help us win with money, especially in those areas that we struggle with as far as just, living our best life and doing it for less.

Defining Who and What Matters to You

Michelle Jackson: One of the things I spent a lot of time thinking about several years ago was how, how do I want to live my life?

I was commuting 30 plus miles a day. They were actually working on the highway at a time. So a 30-mile commute. It should've been like 45 minutes or whatever was typically two hours each way.

And so I was commuting with the same people for years and we would just sleep on the bus because it was really nice plus whatever. And we'd fall asleep and then wake up and be in the town that I worked at. I was just like, what am I want my life to be. But the problem was that I had a lot of debt. I had a lot of things going on.

And then finally, one day I was just like, I need to start trying to figure this out because I don't want to look like this. And so I started, and I should say I had a huge financial mess, so I had thousands. $2 a day. It just had a lot going on.

Elle Martinez: What was the mix of it? If you don't mind me asking, like what kinds of debt?

Michelle Jackson: I had a bazillion credit cards, like lots of little credit cards. Like it wasn't that they had lots of large credit limit, so it was just a lot of them. I had random little amounts of personal loans, money, lots, and lots of little things that built up over time and became a huge financial mess. And for people who have never experienced, like having. Creditors call you or having more than one day.

Horrible. I was getting at the height of it all. I was getting calls, text messages, letters, and emails, typically from the same creditor multiplied by like, So it was a lot of stress that I was dealing with and for things that I could even remember.

yeah. So one of the things I thought of, I thought about was like, how can I just lower my overall overall overhead in general? Like I'm paying all this money. I have to like find some money to pay off the debt. And this is like crazy. See, like I got to figure this out. So I started methodically going through my budget.

So I started going, I had to do a couple of things. One is I had to acknowledge who I was as a person. Like I'm not a fast food person. I'm not going to eat bad food to save money. I'm not going to not look my life. Like there were certain things that I was unwilling to stop doing. I believe. With food in particular, that food is medicine and that it would make no sense for me to eat orally and then get sick.

When I was already stressed out, like it was already physically unwell. So to exacerbate, that made no sense. I knew that I wanted or getting groceries. I knew that I wanted to take trips within reason. So there were just certain things that I was like, okay, this is what I value. This whole conversation of look at your budget, know what you value.

And then I was like, how can I do this for less? So for example, with groceries, I started shopping multiple times during the week, which I just had a habit of shopping multiple times, starting the week just went shopping once a week. It was a small thing. It saved me a lot of time. Cause clearly I didn't have a lot of time with the four hours a day.

So I just literally was like, this is what I need to pick up once a week. And that was it. And maybe I would go also to the farmer's market if it was during the summer season. So maybe it would be two times, but like very quick, easy. And my, my grocery bill dropped significantly actually just by doing that one thing,

Elle Martinez: I think that's fascinating there and I don't want to.

Like interrupt you. But I thought that was great that you pointed that out because a lot of times in personal finance, there's a lot of advice thrown out. And one that, you know, is like almost a badge of honor, we spend so cheaply, you know, whether it's food or whatever. and that's how we save and pay down the debt.

But what you're saying is you pause to define your priorities and then honed in on that and then try to, , still what you valued was your health with finding cheaper ways. That's, that's fascinating. Cause I think we have a desire, not to just spend money to spend money, but we're in such a rush to get that quick fix of dropping the spending that we don't look at. Well, what are you working towards?

It's not just saving money, you know? Trying to align yourself and your spending to what matters to you. So I thought that was fascinating.

Staying Fit (without the Expensive Gym Membership)

Michelle Jackson: I like, I like the whole align yourself. So I was already out of alignment with all the debt. So where I aligned with my values. Yeah.

Another thing that I valued was fitness. And so I was like, okay. maybe right now I can't really do a lot of classes or maybe I want to take classes. How can I do that? So the city has free classes that they teach, like provided by the city of Denver, like hip hop like that.

I'm curious, literally I knew about it because I know my town, but a lot of times you'll find it online.

Like on Facebook events, actually, it's a really good place to start Instagram right now. It's a little tricky because we're still. Finding are studying during COVID, but even now, recently I found a yoga studio here in Denver, black woman, and they have made it a priority part of the mission to, to offer free yoga.

So now I'm going to be adding that into my fitness regimen. I also. Trade hours for [classes] how's that work even now. So this was weird, literally like two weeks before the shutdown orders happened, I had signed on to do like a work exchange and literally like, all I was supposed to do is like really easy occasionally.

And then like flame clean the studio every once in a while, like every other. Super easy then coronavirus, the scope of work changed. And so I ended up crafting newsletters, so I didn't have to write them. I just had to like do the final, super easy.

Elle Martinez: That's important because also fitness can be expensive.

A lot of, you know, categories that people spend can be pricey, especially fitness. Sometimes we go overboard and get all this equipment, but you found ways to kind of hack it so that you sell are getting the fitness, you know, and health benefits, but you're not spending a ton of money

Michelle Jackson: And also I wanted to have the actual experience that I wanted. So I didn't want to, like, I can do YouTube videos, but I don't enjoy them.

I value in-person classes. Those are a lot more interesting for me. So that's the other piece too? It's like, yes, I could have just totally forgone classes altogether and just done YouTube videos, but for me, that wasn't a good fit.

The other thing that I did was I signed up for meetups. and this is very specific to where you live, but we have a lot of fitness folks in Colorado. So we're recording this the day after we record this, I'm going on. It.

I'm going to get nature. And so I did a lot of that too, and those were free. And so I would, I would carpool with someone thought it was just incredible. If you're a person of color, you're like, I'm nervous about outdoors. There are shirts for that. There are literally meet up groups or people of color allies to go.

Yeah. I belonged to all kinds of groups. Cause I love going outdoors, but I just looked for a lot of ways to do the same thing for less. And then the other pieces, if you're like, well, what about the equipment? I had friends who they gave me their snowboard. So I got to be so worried. and so I got a lot of free equipment, but you can also go to Goodwill and get very inexpensive equipment or companies that all they do is so outdoors equipment.

The other thing I looked at was transportation, because I'm not really a car person. I actually learned to drive as an adult. And it wasn't, it was, it was learning your job as an adult. I will forever be grateful to my Russian friend media and my Colorado friend who got in the car with me and taught me how to drive my Colorado and got safety, a lot of money because if I paid for lessons, it would have been very, very expensive.

But what I did was I actually bought a used car. $1,500. Yeah. I had to learn to drive because I owned a car. Like it was, it was, I had to learn. And so my friends would get in the car that I owned. And I would learn to drive in my car and they would just meet me at my house. We'd just pop into the car. And that's how I learned now.

I actually don't have that car. I use a car share, so I've found that as a single woman, without babies, I don't need to have a car.

I'll buy the light rail and I bike. So for me, I was like, maybe I don't need to own a car cause I'm not a car person clearly. And so I now harsher I'm obsessed with it. Last week I went on a road trip.

I actually kind of made a mistake because right now they're running a. Five day special for $245. And then the first a hundred miles are free or some, something like that. So I made a mistake and I rented it for two or three days and paid $160. So I will only do the week long rental moving forward because that was, I clearly overpaid or the 20, 20 so far.

I think that I pay. $450 for transportation. Great. Not even, not even. And that's including a trip that I'm taking a couple of weeks from now. So if you have two cars and you live in a city that has a car share, I would strongly recommend you don't have small. I would say really using a card, share a second.

Look, I paid $12 a month. To be a member. I upgraded my person membership for the highest level of insurance. I have a million dollar policy that I paid. so if something happens and I'm in the car, I'm covered like, like the significant amount of coverage. And I think that that's great. So this year, January through April, I think I spent 50 bucks on transportation and it's so cool because the program that I use is actually a nonprofit here in Colorado.

So it's not a for profit and they have hybrid cars that they specifically focus on. I care about earth. So it's really in alignment with how I like to live my life. So I, I really care about my footprint. And so I'm really happy with the program. I am so obsessed with the Rav four that I drove last week.

That's my favorite car in the fleet, but it's not close to my house. So normally I have to, I have to go downtown to get the rabbits. So I went on my road trip. I got the Rav four with, and that was a lot of fun. And it's cool because you get to test out these cars before my, so yeah, this, this for the rest of the summer, I'm going to spend about $245 for the next time that I drive a couple of weeks from now.

And then in August, I'll take another road trip. It'll be another 20, $45. And then for the rest of the year, it's probably going to be like 30 bucks a month. That's significantly.

Elle Martinez: the average car payment right now for a new car is like 500 and change. I want to say five 30 and I believe for used car, it's like 385 a month and that's not counting car insurance on top of that and, you know, fuel and all that maintenance. So that's a really clever hack.

I do want to kind of switch gears.

Michelle Jackson: Literally, that was fun.

Elle Martinez: Okay. My husband would be proud of that, but I do want to talk about you since I've known you, you have like built different income streams as, as a successful business woman. You're an author, you know, you speak, you are running this course to help other people pursue their dream of writing.

you have two podcasts square state. About all about Colorado and Michelle is money hungry. So you are managing a lot. I want to talk to you one, how do you step back and kind of recharge yourself? So you're not burning out and then like, how do you view self care? Because that's kind of like thrown around and I hate now that I see it more in advertisements than actual conversations.

Michelle Jackson: So for me, I think with entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurs will try a lot of things. And it's a really exhausting part of the journey I find because you're trying to figure out what's the right fit for you. Especially as a digital entrepreneur. Where, it's very intangible, right? Like there's a lot of what you do is very intangible.

Like you're waiting for feedback. You're looking at HB news, things like that. So maybe he could get a hundred thousand page, but then no one emails you. Right. So what I found with online entrepreneurship was that. It just was so confusing, like what was the right fit? And it just took a while for me to figure out what works well for me, energetically, and it wasn't really tiring because it was a lot of like throwing spaghetti at the wall, to be honest.

This year, I am really in refinement mode. So, you know, when people are like, Oh, that person's the overnight success. And they're like, dude, I've been at this for like seven years. That's kind of the experience that I've had where I've been at this for three years now. And so I'm at that point where I'm really finding, this is what I know.

Right. So I'm at the point where. I've just had enough lessons that I know what doesn't work for me. So example, what doesn't work is I don't do coffee. I don't do like pick your brain. I don't, I don't do that. That's that's time I could be making money. I don't, so that's a boundary that I said. Because I already create free content and podcasts and websites.

And you know, I do stuff on rice instead of Brown and all that. So I don't need to do these one on ones. So I started meeting people and saying, Hey, when, when it came up, if you want to meet with me, you can just pay me what your mind. And then that's actually proven to be a little bit. So I got a payment this week that I spoke to nothing crazy, but I could've made them.

Yeah, it's great other money because I value my time. So I'm just being really clear about the boundaries you set as an entrepreneur is so key. One of the easiest things I did that the biggest impact once changing my email responder, I cannot explain. What a big difference it made, because what I did was I was like, look, I'm available Monday through Thursday, like 10 to four.

And then on Friday, I'm available to half the day and then I'm out. And, what happened was. It was very clear to people what to expect from me. So it wasn't just that I was like, I'm not available. I'm not available now. This is what I'm doing. Usually in the mountains, when I get back, this is where the next 24 to 48 hours.

That one change has saved me so much.

Elle Martinez: I love that.

Michelle Jackson: And so that was an unexpected bonus for self care. Like let's just. Fabulous. I think the other thing is just, and being very, like, don't explain your note. Like a lot of people are like, well, no, and this is why no one shares why they just say no and move on.

so I don't explain my nose. I just say no. And that's it. So that's it. The other thing was soft care is. I, because I work online, I can choose where I work. And so I will make a point of going into the mountains and staying for shootings and not just decompressing. I did that last week, I went to a town called Salita really, really beautiful town in Colorado, which has the oldest, historic district in the state.

Or the large largest historic district in the state. and I just like chilled out and it was so great. I got work done there. Actually. It was funny. I was referred to the night before, like they were like, Hey, can you down? I was like, yeah, cause I got paid 300 bucks to write about. And I felt like, and it was great.

Actually, I was kind of shocked.

So I was like, we're an hour and a half I've hustled. I got it done in the car. I thought about it as I drove down for a couple of hours I did out and then I still enjoyed my time. So I think you need making sure to get away and recharge energize yourself is so important. People just keep going and going and going and it doesn't serve them or their business, to be honest.

Elle Martinez: Yeah. That's that's key. I know as parents. For us, we have to have like our alone time and my husband and I are complete opposite. So I'm the morning person, you know, like straight up the morning routine that you read about like five

o'clock in the morning. But for me, that is when I can have that quietness.

That I need to think whether it's for work for relaxing, like for me to be my best self that's my time. And my husband's more than night owl and that's his time. So, I mean, finding the, even if you can't physically get away, you got a regularly scheduled some kind of time.

To recharge, have that solitude, it can also be outdoors.

I've been doing a lot more walking in the neighborhoods, still, of course, social distancing, but you know, self care, doesn't always have to be like buying this product, you know, taking this expensive, you know, retreat, it's finding pockets of time. You can use, however you see fit.

Michelle Jackson: I should also mention about the retreats because this, this is actually an important thing.

When I go to the mountains for my retreat, I stayed at a hostel and it is like my favorite hostel ever. And I'm obsessed with it. You've seen so many pictures, so I paid $35 a night, including breakfast. They have a hot tub. It's awesome. They're actually opening another property and Telluride, Colorado.

That'd be enough. I cannot wait. And so I will be reserving my space because of a virus. I don't feel comfortable really in the same room with people before I would be fine limit. Now, now I'm going to pay a little more to reserve my own space, which is fine. So instead of paying $35, it's a hundred dollars.

So it's significantly more. But the value to me and my wellbeing is so key that I'm okay with it. It's not like I'm always like, I'm not always doing that. And then after the front switched back to what I was doing anyway, but right now I have to. Yeah,

Elle Martinez: I think that actually kind of circles back and a good place to wrap up because we see money, you know, as we've been writing about personal finance as a tool.

Right. But I think a lot of times when you're starting it, some people see it as the goal. Right. You're, you're paying down a certain amount of debt.

Or if you're in the, you know, FIS space, you know, you're talking about how much you're saving, but at the end of the day, that's not really what you should be using.

For me, I think you should look at time, you know, how am I able to spend my time?

Am I spending the time with the people in the projects that matter most to me, even if you're not, you know, at your retirement a number.

Can you little by little, make decisions with your money. You bring you one step closer, either, you know, more flexibility or more options when it comes to, things that you need for self care and taking care of others.

And then like finally, even if you decide to give more like a lot of people I've seen once they reached a certain amount of, financial freedom. Oh, that's natural out courses. How can I help others? And it can take manifest in so many different ways.

So I love how you've done such an incredible job of not just saving money, which is great, but making sure that your money is moving in the direction that matters to you.

Michelle Jackson: And I want to say two things. One is I have no savings number, so I want to be very candid about that. I accidentally so fired five years ago. And so, I want people to design your life. that you're working towards. So how do you live your life now? Especially if you're in the fires space, right? Like people are so focused on the numbers, but I'm like being focused on the light.

So in March when everything got shut down and I was like, I am so thankful that I so fired and I'm living my life and I've learned how to make money outside of nine to five. Like I was really. Because there are moments when I doubt I have like, maybe this was the dumbest thing. Yeah. Actually the spring has confirmed that I did the right thing.

I am so happy that I took a stand for my life and decided to do what was best. I don't know that I would have been happy.

Elle Martinez: I, Oh, I hear you on that.

Michelle Jackson: You know what I mean? So like, I can go see my mom when I feel like it. I can, if I needed to go to the doctor, I could go whenever. If I want to go to a road trip, I can do that last week. Want to go? You know what? I finished my work today. Now it wasn't easy, especially because I work on myself.

It was very hard and I had debt, which made it hard, but I was not, I don't regret it at all. Hmm. I'm, I'm so thankful that I made those hard choices because I've had five years of living a really wonderful, challenging life, but life is challenging, right? So I just picked my challenge. And now ironically things are because I've put in all these years, things are so much easier for him now.

Right. So making money online, helping other people. You hear that? Yeah. There's that? Well,

Elle Martinez: that's awesome. So Michelle mentioned you have a lot of projects going on and I know people listening want to like. Connect more with you. So do you mind mentioning just a few ways that they can reach out and connect and join your community?

Michelle Jackson: I run a website shows. I love to talk about all things, lifestyle, design, entrepreneurship, and personal finance. I'm really interested in. the conversation about earning more versus trying to out verbal they're like, I want you to earn more wisely. So an example of that is I just got contracted to do a fun, freelance, I now freelance again, I'd stopped doing it for nine months.

I only work with clients. I like, I literally am just testing out. So I'm going to test out Fanny packs. When I hike. Normally I'm just going to use that as the piece of equipment that I use during my height. And then I will go on several Heights that I normally do because I hike every weekend. And then I'm going to get paid to share my experience with this product.

And that's an ongoing, actually an ongoing project. So I'll test out other outdoors. Sometimes I can keep the equipment. Sometimes I give it away, whatever, maybe a couple hundred bucks do that. No problem. So I love that kind of thing. I want people to really maximize and their earnings.

you can follow me on Twitter at Mitch Mitch loves money more on Instagram at Michelle's money. And I also run a course eight money with eBooks, but right now it is being worked on. So that's on hiatus and I launched an Academy. Called make money with eBooks Academy or wa as I liked it, you know, like that's what, that's what I call it now, because I think it's hilarious where we need support would be first time nonfiction fiction authors, get their books out in the world.

So definitely check that out.com/academy. Awesome.

Elle Martinez: Well, thank you, Michelle. I've always enjoyed chatting with you.